405. Did you see this debunker coming? Hope so. The Geelong Revival Centre ministry and many members take pride in the British Israel message. The British Israel message / prophecy is false.
406. No Historical Records Link British Royalty to Jesus: Jesus’ Genealogy Ends with Him in the Bible. In case anyone thought so, there is zero credible historical evidence connecting British royalty to Jesus Christ. Jesus had no biological children (according to mainstream Christian doctrine), making any bloodline claim impossible. The GRC does not refute this, but some mistakenly think the GRC preaches this. GRC ministry and members may point out grcfacts claims the GRC believes this connection - NO it doesn't, please read it again if you think it does. It was an introduction clarification for anyone that thought this. grcfacts is actually defending the GRC with this entry. You are welcome GRC :P. No biblical or extrabiblical text suggests Jesus' descendants migrated to Britain.
407. British Monarchy’s Proven Lineage Starts with William the Conqueror (1066): Reliable genealogies begin with Norman and Anglo Saxon kings - none connect to biblical figures. Earlier 'genealogies' (like those of Alfred the Great) are legendary, not factual. From William the Conqueror (1066) onward, the lineage is well documented and considered accurate. Records before 1066, such as those of the House of Wessex, are based on chronicles like the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, but details may be less precise. Some legends trace the lineage back to King Arthur or even Woden (Odin), but these are not historically verifiable.
408. Queen Elizabeth II Descends from King David via Tephi: No evidence supports the claim that Queen Elizabeth II is a descendant of King David through a figure named Tephi. The Bible does not mention a daughter of Zedekiah named Tephi or Tamar Tephi, nor her escaping to Ireland. It records Zedekiah’s sons being killed (2 Kings 25 vs 7, Jeremiah 52 vs 11) and his daughters taken to Egypt (Jeremiah 43 vs 6 - 7), with no further details. The Tephi story originates from 19th-century British Israelism, not historical or biblical records.
409. The Lost Tribes of Israel as the British People: The claim that the ten lost tribes of Israel (deported by Assyria circa 722 BCE) migrated to Europe and became the Anglo Saxon peoples is a cornerstone of British Israelism. However, this lacks archaeological, linguistic, or genetic evidence. The tribes’ fate is historically uncertain, with some likely assimilated into Assyrian culture or scattered in the Near East. The migrations of Celts, Angles, Jutes, and Saxons to Britain (circa 400 - 600 CE) are well documented and stem from northern Europe, not the Middle East. Genetic studies (e.g of modern British populations) show continuity with European ancestry, not Israelite origins.
410. The 'Davidic Bloodline' Claim is Fabricated: Some claim the Stuart dynasty descended from King David via Irish kings - no genetic or historical proof exists. This was political propaganda (e.g 17th century royalists), not reality.
411. Genetic Studies Disprove a 'Sacred Bloodline': DNA analysis of European royalty (e.g Richard III’s remains) shows no Middle Eastern lineage from Jesus’ time. British royals have typical Western European haplogroups. The Windsors descend from German (Hanoverian) and Norman nobility, not ancient Judea. Their ancestry is well documented and entirely European.
412. The 'Lost Tribes of Israel' Theory is Debunked: Claims that Britons descend from the 'Lost Tribes' (e.g British Israelism) are pseudohistory with no archaeological or genetic support.
413. Medieval Myths ≠ Historical Fact: Claims trace back to Geoffrey of Monmouth’s Historia Regum Britanniae (1136), a fictionalized legend about Brutus of Troy, not a reliable source. Even medieval scholars dismissed these stories as myth.
414. The Throne of David 'Overturned' Three Times: Ezekiel 21 vs 27 ("I will overturn, overturn, overturn it") refers to the end of the Davidic monarchy in Judah with Zedekiah’s fall to Babylon. The 'three overturnings' (Judah to Ireland, Ireland to Scotland, Scotland to England) is a speculative interpretation unique to British Israelism, not supported by mainstream biblical scholarship or history. Historically, the transfer of royal power from Ireland to Scotland (e.g via the Dalriada Scots) and from Scotland to England (e.g James VI of Scotland becoming James I of England in 1603) occurred, but these events are unrelated to Judah or David’s throne. They reflect Celtic and Anglo-Saxon political developments, not a biblical prophecy.
415. Psalm 89 and the Endurance of David’s Throne: Psalm 89 vs 36 - 37 does promise that David’s seed and throne will endure forever, which is a key messianic prophecy in Judeo Christian tradition. Most scholars interpret this as fulfilled spiritually in Jesus Christ, a descendant of David (Matthew 1 vs 1, Luke 3 vs 23 - 31), rather than in a continuous earthly monarchy. The claim that the British throne literally fulfills this prophecy lacks biblical support. The Davidic covenant is typically understood as pointing to a restored kingdom under the Messiah, not a European monarchy. The GRC British Israel interpretation is a minority view rooted in British Israelite theology, not mainstream Christianity - but the GRC people think that's besides the point because mainstream Christianity means 'The World.'
416. Jesus Taking the Throne of David in London: The New Testament (e.g Luke 1 vs 32 - 33) states that Jesus will be given 'the throne of his father David' and reign over the house of Jacob forever. Christian eschatology generally places this event in Jerusalem (e.g Zechariah 14 vs 4, Revelation 20), not London. The idea that the British throne is currently David’s throne and will be transferred to Jerusalem is an extra biblical assertion. Jesus’ Davidic lineage through Mary is widely accepted in Christian theology (Luke 3 vs 23 - 31), but this does not imply a connection to the British monarchy.
417. Early Christian Britain Had No Royal Jesus Connection: Roman Britain (1st - 5th century AD) had no tradition linking local rulers to Jesus or David. The first Christian missionaries (e.g St. Augustine, 597 AD) never mentioned such a link.
418. The 'Stone of Scone' and Other Relics Are Unrelated: As discussed with the previous grcfacts entry set - Myths about the Coronation Stone (Stone of Destiny) being Jacob’s pillow (Genesis 28) are medieval folklore, not history.
419. Even the Vatican Rejects These Claims: Yes, that's correct, the GRC's favourite 'the extensive genealogical records keeping Catholic Church' has never acknowledged a Jesus family tree / British royal bloodline. Popes and medieval scholars dismissed such legends as heresy or fantasy (this entry serves to rub salt in GRC wounds).
420. Interesting to find that the British Israel message/prophecy is not by the GRC. The GRC insists on leaning against the prophecies given to them directly by God through the moving of The Spirit within themselves, but they are resting on other churches/backslidden church's prophecies/fables.
421. Here are some older groups that preach these claims also:
- British Israel World Federation (founded in the 19th century).
- Christian Identity Movement (an extremist offshoot) - White supremacist factions within Christian Identity, a racist and antisemitic ideology.
- Mormonism (LDS Church) believes in the 'gathering of Israel', it does not officially endorse British Israelism. However, some early Mormon leaders (e.g Parley P. Pratt) speculated about Native Americans/British being linked to the Lost Tribes.
- Some New Age mystics blend British monarchy myths with Templar legends - Believing that the royals are secretly guarding a 'Jesus bloodline' (no historical basis).
- Pentecostal/Charismatic revivalist preachers (e.g fringe Pentecostal ministers) claim the British royal family is part of a divine dynasty tied to Jesus or King David.
Very popular doctrine in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among some Protestant groups.
All the above groups, and more, indoctrinated followers to believe the British Israel message decades before the GRC had became it's own identity. An identity that proclaims itself as the one and only church that's right with the Lord.
422. This topic pushes home another weird and confusing GRC practice. Coming soon you'll read entries that question the principles of the GRC when it leans on, praises, and holds up high many historical figures and groups who have produced excellent worshipping tools to use for building up faith and bringing joy while following Jesus and His father. But, problem...none of those historical figures and groups were filled with the Spirit according to the GRC ministry. Putting it bluntly, the GRC loves to use material from 'Wordly' sources. What? How can this be? Entries covering this soon.
"'Fear' and 'think' often get mixed up. People will proclaim what they think something is, when really it's what they 'fear' it to be."
This was a record long entry set. It had to be covered extensively as it is key to proving the point of this website. The GRC is not the one and only righteous God appointed and anointed Church. The GRC is also a cult that is being cornered, and to what extent will their desperation for self satisfying glory go? If you're still attending be very cautious of the communion cup. Refer to 'The Jonestown massacre'. There could be a special 'Cool-Aid' meeting in their future. Because none of us who have advanced would be surprised seeing the commitment given to the GRC false ministry. Take the hint. Please. If there is only one aspect that's wrong on this website - I hope it is this thought.
Website Full Entry Set Topic Index Page Is Being Worked On. Take Care. Back Soon.
423. You may be reading this entry set and feel a little apprehensive. Relax, feel comfortable, we're not going to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and you won't need to read anything against authentic Speaking in Tongues, or against it being one of 'the gifts' that some may have genuinely received or not, in a Biblical or current times context. As always stated it's preferable you don't know my position towards various beliefs - if you are inclined to do so, please search the truth for yourself as a free person. This entry set will present and critique the publicly known doctrine of Speaking in Tongues being inarguable as identifying a Spirit Filled person who is 'Saved' within the GRC environment and experience under that ministry. Before we go further everyone (both for and against the GRC) agrees the Geelong Revival Centre unequivocally preaches you cannot be 'Filled with The Holy Spirit' without having the evidence of 'Speaking in Tongues', you must Speak in Tongues to be saved! I previously covered some aspects on the GRC specific brand of Speaking in Tongues in entries 171 - 173.
424. Thanks to easy access of an abundant internet knowledge base you can easily search the information presented here, and from other cult group awareness contributors, for yourself in these modern times. None of this information is new, but there my be a difference on exact dates along with the level of importance placed on figures and groups mentioned in different archives. Please research more about this yourself to verify, copy and paste the names mentioned into your favourite internet search engine and there it will be. If you ask any GRC minister or extremist member within the GRC Closed High-Demand Doomsday Group be sure to ask for searchable references and do your own research looking for independent sources with that information you were given, don't take their word for it. Don't take my word for it, look it all up. Be fully confident many of us have sincerely and objectively searched because we want the full truth, having had enough of the smoke and mirror sideshows.
425. Short lesson on the inception of the Speaking in Tongues as the only sign of being 'Holy Spirit Filled' and 'Saved' GRC doctrine: The belief that speaking in tongues is absolutely necessary as a sign of salvation emerged primarily within certain Pentecostal and Charismatic movements in the early 20th century. It traces back to the Azusa Street Revival (1906–1909) in Los Angeles, led by William J. Seymour, where speaking in tongues was seen as a key manifestation of the Holy Spirit’s baptism. Some groups, like the Oneness Pentecostals, began emphasising tongues as a definitive sign of salvation, interpreting Acts 2 vs 38 and Mark 16 vs 17 as evidence. This view solidified in denominations like the United Pentecostal Church International / Assemblies of God, which teaches that speaking in tongues is a necessary evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, tied to their understanding of salvation. Of course, the splits within churches list accumulates new offshoot entries to this day and on, there'd have to be hundreds of splits already on it, including the 1972 Longfield - Hollins bust up resulting in the Geelong revival Centre offshoot. No doubt there will be splits in and from the GRC with Brian Griggs' unpopularity. All branches that break away and form their own new church are all the one true 'Lead by The Spirit' revival...says each leader and member. It's pathetic.
426. However, the Speaking in Tongues stance is not universal across Christianity—many denominations, including most mainstream Protestants, reject the idea that tongues are required for salvation, citing broader biblical teachings on faith and grace (e.g Ephesians 2 vs 8-9). The doctrine’s roots are modern, stemming from early 20th-century revivalism, not earlier Christian tradition. If you can prove any church group insisted that Speaking in Tongues is the only sign of a person being filled with The Holy Ghost before 1906 - There is a prize waiting. None of us who have objectively researched can find anything on it that isn't vaguely recorded rumour along the lines of very isolated cases like the Montanists (2nd century) or certain medieval mystics. If it was that crucial to any church it would undoubtedly be recorded throughout history, but it's nowhere to be seen. God wouldn't let it be a secret would He? As the GRC vehemently says, yesterday, today and forever Jesus is the same, as is His Word, and it's simple available - to - anyone message. But we know, to the GRC, it's all that but add 'Unless the GRC changes the doctrine'...
427. Like a slap on the side of the face with a wet fish, the GRC doctrine on Speaking in Tongues is inflexible to any degree and this then presents the obvious problem: When the 'Speaking in Tongues is the one absolute necessary sign of being Saved' doctrine only started at the start of the twentieth century (a mere 119 years ago) the GRC ministers are saying anyone pre 1906 weren’t saved! How do they explain salvation prior to 1906 as this makes no sense? Did God just let the doctrine lay dormant for 1800+ years? His word is complete isn't it? Or, is everyone between the end of Biblical New Testament times and 1906 going to hell because there was no church lead emphasis at all on needing to Speak in Tongues to be Saved? GRC is genuinely implying that no one for that 1800+ years period is Saved, which means all those people were of 'The World'.
428. If anyone from the GRC says anything along the lines of; God works differently in different periods of history. Or, if they argue that the requirement of Speaking in Tongues for salvation is specific to the 'dispensation' of the church age following the restoration of this truth in the 20th century. Or, argue that those who lived before the 20th century and did not Speak in Tongues were not held accountable for this requirement because they were ignorant of it. Or, it was a new revelation from God, introducing the necessity of Speaking in Tongues as part of a deeper understanding of Salvation -> The GRC would be saying God wasn't clear enough to begin with and His Word, His Voice, and His Prophecy was weak. Would The Lord be fine with that?
429. Understanding the GRC claiming no one can be Spirit Filled without the evidence of Speaking in Tongues now presents an issue that exposes the GRC ministry as hypocritical and double standardisers. As the GRC loudly categorises anyone who does not Speak in Tongues as someone in 'The World' this highlights a heavy strike to GRC doctrine credibility because...
430. King James - King James Version Bible commissioner: Died 1625 - Not saved, of 'The World'!
431. John Newton - Amazing Grace hymn writer: Died 1807 - Not saved, of 'The World'!
432. God Save The Queen / King anthem composer / writer - Not a single composer / author confirmed: Any theorised attributions all died well before 1906 - Not saved, of 'The World'!
433. Ivan Panin - Author: Bible Numerics book: Died 1942 (after 1906), but did not Speak in Tongues even though the mandatory 'Speaking in Tongues as the sign' started decades previous to his death - Not saved, of 'The World'!
434. Charles Piazzi Smyth - Author: Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid: Including All the Most Important Discoveries Up to the Present Time: Died 1900 - Not saved, of 'The World'!
435. John Taylor - Author: The Great Pyramid: Why Was It Built? & Who Built It? (Which was Charles Smyth's inspiration): Died 1864 - Not saved, of 'The World'!
436. John Bunyan - Author: The Pilgrim's Progress: Died 1688 - Not saved, of 'The World'!
437. Anyone Pre - 1906 who preached the British Israel message, this includes anyone who recorded the bloodline - Not saved, of 'The World', so they are not to be trusted according to the GRC!
438. Anyone Pre - 1906 who claimed and recorded The Stone of Scone is Jacob's Pillow over the last 1800+ years - Not saved, of 'The World', so they are not to be trusted according to the GRC!
439. And how is this possible? Any member of the British Monarchy: Past or present, all of them, every one (not one Speaks in Tongues, or ever has) - Not saved, of 'The World'!
440. Anyone else prior to 1906 respected for providing material, doctrine, encouragement, music, choruses, hymns, songs, poems, recorded history, ministry, and anything else you can think of to bolster the GRC faith and beliefs from the platform - You guessed it - Never Spoke in Tongues - Not saved, therefore of 'The World'! ----> According to the Geelong Revival Centre.
441. Here is another confusing case of GRC behaviour. Always baffling. How can it be the GRC abuses, belittles, condemns to hell, anyone that is not saved with the evidence of Speaking in Tongues yet cherry picks everything good 'The World' provides for them to use, and even often claim as their own to prove they are the one and only true and righteous church of God? GRC says, "That's a really edifying thing, and it's ours now". - While stabbing their perceived 'The World' it came from in the back! Extremely obnoxious is it not? As a GRC explanation all the contributing people above must have been 'lead by the Spirit'. They move the GRC emotions and minds, therefore it's enough of an excuse for the GRC to let it slide that the above were of 'The World'. The GRC cherry picks passionately - picking and choosing what inspires them, then they use the excuse the writers/authors/providers must have been inspired by the Holy Ghost. When you zoom right into the GRC doctrines, the GRC proudly claims all those gifted people above really only did it for the GRC, as everyone else has no right to it and is going to hell anyway. In summary the GRC self awards itself as the one and only true church, yet cannot produce enough of their own (even while being the most blessed and anointed of all) spiritually uplifting material to solely rely on, hence they use 'The World's' material while abusing everything of 'The World' with no shame.
442. Full respect and love for all of the above who have inspired people's faith and joy in both good and incredibly trying times. Admiration for those sharing ones who have unconditional graceful love and don't self righteously claim they are the 'Chosen Ones'. They were only used as examples to illustrate the GRC's double standards. If you look at Bible Salvation as being a lot simpler to receive and free to everyone throughout the globe, throughout the last 1800+ years, it makes complete sense. Everyone contributes for all those who have a simple, but deep faith. Not just to the GRC's salvation metrics.
443. Speaking in Tongues is also known as 'glossolalia', but the two terms are used in different contexts. I don't say glossolalia within grcfacts due to the lived experience within the GRC results in never hearing the term while in this Closed High-Demand Group. Speaking in Tongues is the only term used.
444. Speaking in Tongues is the religious context. When believing it's Divine use for prayer, worship and proof of the Holy Spirit as in the GRC's case.
445. It's called Glossolalia by academics and non religious type people (broadly speaking). These believe it's only a psychological and linguistic phenomena that can be learned, and they study it as a behaviour not a religious / spiritual experience.
446. To clarify I did and can 'Speak in GRC Tongues' - resulting from the Geelong Revival Centre instructed methods and heavy insistence. I did exactly what I was told by the Geelong Revival Centre ministry as a youngster. Said Hallelujah thousands of times repetitively, listened to the sounds made by all around, and after a slow transition from a clear Hallelujah, to a rough mumbly Hallelujah to a few different sounds thrown in, I started to not say Hallelujah anymore. It took weeks to transition through what they call a stammering tongue to a clear tongue. Felt no different. Had I really received the ability to Speak in Tongues? Could anyone trust this false prophet ministry to know if you are genuinely Speaking in Tongues? I don't think so. You will read more on how grcfacts would worship and follow The Lord if they were to pick up the Bible as a complete newcomer looking for salvation the Bible way in the next few weeks. Not saying any God is real or not, the Bible is the way or not, just what the Bible says as far as Salvation is concerned.
447. If you've been to a few GRC 'Seeker's meetings' (the meetings or other occasions where anyone who wants [or is forced] to receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of Speaking in Tongues attends) you notice the pattern of the minister/elder/brother running the meeting not being sure if someone is indeed clearly Speaking in Tongues and needs the main pastor in charge of that assembly to verify. This is when that pastor teaches the subordinate preacher what to listen for. Where is the 'cloven tongues like as of fire', and 'rushing mighty wind' (clearly described in Acts 2 vs 1 - 4) that is equally as pertinent in the description of receiving the Holy Spirit that the GRC conveniently brushes off as not required? Knowing if someone can Speak in Tongues clearly is trained and not from God. This is training from pastor to pastor to pastor behaviour, that's it. If it 'sounds' like a clear enough language to an elder, minister, or pastor it's Speaking in Tongues. Invented individually or not. This begs the important question, what if you haven't really received The Holy Spirit Speaking in Tongues, because the GRC merely taught you a made up language? Depending on your belief, this will be a very dire situation. Are you 100 percent confident your 'speaking in GRC tongues' is actually 'Speaking in Tongues'?
448. As it's publicly known, the GRC claims they are The Lord's one and only true faithful church. This site was born to help anyone wondering, lost, or worse, unravel the tangled GRC doctrines in an effort to alleviate any tragic personal anguish, pain and confusion (hang in there - be strong) to start living a full free and joyful life. The GRC says you can only follow The Lord and the Bible correctly through them - and there is no other correct church. The GRC claims Speaking in Tongues is evidence of a person Filled with The Holy Ghost and around 100 – 200 million people worldwide actively speak in tongues today who do not attend the GRC, though some estimates go higher (up to 500 million if including those who have done so at least once). One million⁺ non - GRC affiliated churches globally incorporate tongues-speaking, either regularly or occasionally. Yes, correct, there are over 1,000,000 OTHER CHURCHES who have members that Speak in Tongues. GRC self-righteousness breaks all records.
449. To break it down, simplifying the numbers: The Geelong Revival Centre and it's associated assemblies world wide only have a couple of thousand members that Speak in Tongues - Rest of the world that Speaks in Tongues and Filled with the Holy Spirit (as that's the evidence according to the GRC) is up to 500 million! GRC members VS the rest of the Spirit Filled people in the world ratio is up near 1:200,000. And the GRC claims they are the only ones right with God even though they haven't met or meaningfully communicated with any of the other churches or people to find out what they are following or doing. God Fills anyone who asks with The Holy Spirit, in or outside of the GRC, anywhere in the world, but wait, if not in the GRC they are not saved, going to hell - GRC says so. Bible says anything but this, as whether you are a Christian, atheist, agnostic or other, the KJV Bible that the GRC follows for instruction says what it says - "Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part". You can easily connect the GRC is doing the 'against us' in that verse, they are against anyone that does miracles and Speaks in Tongues who is not in the GRC church, so the GRC is not on the 'our part' of that scripture. How does anyone believe the 'GRC is the one church' mantra rubbish? Well, it's through High-Demand Coercion. Fear, bullying, isolation and repetition.
450. GRC proclaims none of the other millions of people who Speak in Tongues is 'Saved' and you should stay away from them, even though those millions of others are demonstrating they are 'Spirit Filled'. On the other hand people who produce excellent edifying music or material approved by the GRC are to be revered even if they have never Spoke in Tongues...OK. Got it.
grcfacts analogy is this: The GRC is The Broken Lighthouse, a proud lighthouse that smashes families on the rocks, leaves lives in ruin, and this lighthouse claims they are guiding well. It's delusional insanity. The GRC Broken Lighthouse may give comfort to those who think about the safety a lighthouse represents, but they can't see this one is broken and misguiding. When you finally push off and away from The GRC Broken Lighthouse and look back upon it not only is it the ugliest lighthouse ever seen, it's also facing the wrong way, is broken and has deranged drunk - on - their - own - brilliance kooks operating it. It's impossible to have just the one lighthouse that illuminates a safe passage across the whole world. GRC says you can, and it happens to be them - You can't and they are obviously not! GRC ministry should admit it was the wrong doctrine, truly making the people free with unconditional love...unlike the below \/ \/ \/
"...there is no coercive control in the church, and people are free to choose to follow it's teachings or not." - pastor / Apostle Brian (GRC Closed High-Demand Group, Spiritually Defeated Sunk Cost Fallacy member leader) Griggs, to the ABC news April 2025.
Other C.H-D.G (cult) leaders that also said anyone was free to follow or leave:
Jim Jones - People’s Temple (Jonestown Massacre 1978 - 912 dead).
David Koresh - The Branch Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists, Waco, Texas (1994 - 80 dead ).
Marshall Applewhite - Heaven’s Gate, San Diego, California (1997 - 39 dead).
Joseph Di Mambro - The Order of the Solar Temple (1994 to 1997 74 dead).
^^^ All were 'free to leave'.
Always thinking about lonely GRC (those still attending but not into the role playing, but cannot leave) and Advanced and left GRC people who could use some friendship, reassurance, or company, that are trapped in a bad relationship or situation. I am quiet and shy, but still manage a chat here and there with strangers, although I do have a good friend network. I heard a podcast recently that you may like the content of, it's about making conversation, making openings to friendships. You can do this too. It details the story of a woman who was very shy and introverted who morphed herself into quite the opposite as you can discover when you listen. Hope it helps. Podcast: Hidden brain. Episode: Relationships 2.0: The Power of Tiny Interactions. Date: 15 April, 2025.
This entry took much longer than a few minutes. It's been edited over many many times and far from complete or perfect. It's my wish that you search out the truth for yourself, using the information here and from the other very public contributors, which should get the ball rolling if you did not know the history of the GRC tongues doctrine. It's probably the most important GRC topic to cover and sincerely hoping you get something out of it. Even if you are the one and only person that reads this, it brings truth, happiness and ultimately real freedom to your valuable life - Then it was worth it.
451. When I was attending Bible Numerics was the Geelong Revival Centre's seal of authenticity for the King James Version Bible being complete and uneditable in any way, hence to the GRC it is 'Divine perfection' when compared to every other bible version which is 'of the devil' and wordly. There is no indication in the bible itself (KJV or other) that there is numerical prophecy interwoven into any bible/language version, King James Version or any other. This is another case of GRC heresy used as a tool to convince (trick) followers into remaining in 'their one and only true church' that has special access to God's own last days prophecy. The GRC belief system is an amazingly convoluted layered cake of deceptions with each being served up to a membership willing to swallow anything that the ministry provides. It's insanity. Overnight the Pastors could say chocolate always tastes bad and members would undoubtedly suddenly agree. This is the result of decades of repetitive doctrine enforcement through the use of many fear and reward achieving manipulations.
452. Ivan Panin's Bible Numerics books were the focus of the GRC's obsession when I was attending. Whether they follow it as strictly now as previously matters not as a change in view would again reveal the GRC changes doctrines (heresies) on a whim, which would remove follower's trust (many would think) in the current GRC's ministering, because any of the GRC doctrines (heresies) could change at any time also. How can the GRC be incorrect this many times as it is the self professed one true church, out of the entire world? When I said "would remove follower's trust" above, it wouldn't for many - There is absolutely nothing the ministry could say and direct that members would not believe and follow. It's shocking and sad. Especially when children and the vulnerable are involved.
453. Back to numerics - Ivan Panin's Bible Numerics is a work that claims to find intricate numerical patterns in the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible, supposedly proving its divine inspiration. While his work has fascinated GRC believers - Mathematicians, biblical scholars, and skeptics have raised serious objections to his methods and conclusions.
454. Panin selectively chooses words, phrases, and numerical values that fit his patterns while ignoring those that don’t. He often counts or excludes certain grammatical forms (like the definite article 'the') to make the numbers fit. He sometimes uses different manuscript traditions (e.g switching between Textus Receptus and critical Greek texts) to get the desired numerical outcome. This is a classic case of confirmation bias which the GRC loves - forcing the data to fit a 'preconceived conclusion' rather than objectively analysing it.
455. Panin assigns numerical values to Hebrew and Greek letters (a legitimate ancient practice called gematria), but his methods are inconsistent. He sometimes uses different letter-counting methods (e.g counting only certain letters in a word). He applies different rules for different passages to make the numbers work. Without a consistent, objective system, anyone can manipulate numbers to find patterns in any text.
456. Panin never tested his numerological methods on other ancient texts (e.g Homer’s Iliad, the Quran, or secular Greek literature). If similar 'miraculous' patterns appeared in non-inspired texts, his argument would collapse. When skeptics applied Panin’s methods to other texts (like Moby Dick or Shakespeare), they found similar 'divine' patterns, proving his system meaningless.
457. Many of Panin’s claims rely on arbitrary groupings of numbers (e.g sums of letter counts, word counts, verse counts). Statisticians note that with enough data, random patterns inevitably appear. His 'probabilities' of these patterns occurring by chance are exaggerated because he ignores all the non-matching data. This is a form of overfitting - imposing patterns where none exist naturally. A typical case of the GRC 'blindfolding' their way along every path.
458. Panin’s work has been rejected by Biblical scholars because his textual choices are arbitrary, rejected by mathematicians because his methods are statistically flawed, and rejected by historians because gematria was a common literary device, not proof of divine origin. If his methods were valid, they would be widely accepted in academia - but they’re not. None of that matters ot the GRC - they'll jump on it as their own - even if Ivan Panin was not Spirit Filled as per the GRC's operational codes.
459. Gematria was a cultural practice in ancient Judaism and Hellenistic literature, but It was never used as a 'proof' of divine inspiration. Early Christians didn’t use numerological arguments for the Bible’s authority. Panin retrojects modern numerology onto ancient texts in a way the original authors never intended.
460. Panin’s Bible Numerics is an example of apophenia - seeing patterns where none exist. While it may seem impressive at first glance, his methods fail under scrutiny. The Bible’s authority rests on historical, theological, and textual evidence - not forced numerical coincidences. Apophenia - GRC seeing patterns that aren't there - as in GRC healings, miracles, provision, a truthful ministry...the Pastors have no faith, or everyone who asked for healing leaning on the Pastor's faith would have it granted. God has turned His back on Grigg's Revival Centre, as he did Hollin's, as He will keep doing so to any Closed High-Demand Group GRC format templated church.
461. Panin’s Bible Numerics has no official denominational backing but persists in fringe KJV only, independent fundamentalist like the GRC, and online numerology circles. Christian academia considers it a debunked novelty. It is important to understand that even the most well meaning and sincere Christian mathematicians and statisticians, who would love nothing more than finding Bible Numerics is good, see Panin's work as being useful only in Closed High-Demand Groups as an ingredient for the dishes of junk food that they serve up for the members. Junk food that has zero nutrient value, but energises the body to the detriment of that same body.
462. It doesn't matter how many ways bible numerics, or any other recent entry's topics are cross checked and found at fault, GRC members (even the intelligent) will keep going and follow the deceptive egotistical ministry along the path to wasted lives through incessant training. When I was attending for many years I asked a few (at different levels, this is important) what they would do if the Lord appeared in front of them and said to do different than what the Geelong Revival Centre Ministry preached, and I still can't wrap my head around this today, they all replied they would keep following what the GRC ministry said to do, even if contrary to what the Lord in person asked! Again, it's sad (and frustrating if you think about it too long) but you're still here reading which demonstrates there is hope and progress with the current GRC truth sharing.
"What if grcfacts is still attending?"
Next time we will likely continue on GRC doctrine busting, but could be the last to focus on the debunking topic. Until then if the entire GRC experience has, or is, consuming you, take a break. Stop dwelling on it and pursue other nicer things. Stop looking in here, and spread your wings friend. You have no commitment to this site. The whole point of this effort is for you to believe in yourself, your intellect and your freedom. Actually maybe that's what this site has been for me? Without realising it. We did it together? You are not alone. If I can do it - SO CAN YOU! You looking at your screen - me at mine. Take care - be good to you first - then everyone around you ❤
463. Likely this is the Last debunker: Because it’s been there forever it loses the importance of it’s inclusion. It’s obvious when you focus on the ‘Revival’ in the name, but there is no revival at the GRC.
464. There is no 'bringing back to life' manifesting at the GRC.
There is no reignition of any church ministry state, style, doctrine, faith or belief.
There isn’t a revival of membership numbers, and there never will be. They are losing members and it’s easy to comprehend.
465. For decades we’ve been told that there will be a rush of people to get saved at the GRC, any moment, the hall will need extending or a bigger property will be purchased to hold meetings for an enormous growth of GRC members. Go out and witness, bring the souls in. Yes, decades of that old nugget.
466. Might even need to hold a few meetings on Sundays to cope.
Will need a few more baptism tanks.
467. Brothers will need to step up, all the young lions will have to grow bold and strong to lead, become elders and pastors to share the load. Sisters will need to help the brothers.
All the current members will be required to help guide all the new people. It will be mighty, such a great blessing is coming. What will we do, how will we cope? Praise the Lord for all the new souls that the Lord is bringing brothers and sisters…yadda yadda yadda.
468. If I could have my wish and give one word from the platform I’d say, “We’re experiencing a tsunami.”
“You know, from the looks of things, face value, it doesn’t look good. People are backsliding and leaving us. This hall was usually full, and is getting emptier and emptier. We space out the chairs so it doesn’t looks so bad.”
“Remember when the foyer was filled on Sundays?”
“Remember when we didn’t have to force people from Australia to attend camps overseas to prop up the numbers? Even if they can’t afford it? They just have to pray more, for the victory.”
“Remember when the ministry didn’t have to ask the general members for as many offerings to dig the ministry out of financial needs as much as current times?”
“Unfortunately, less numbers mean less tithes coming through our beloved soft velour purple double ender handled sacks. So more ‘offerings’ are requested from the ministry for the Lord’s work.”
“You could get down thinking about it, wondering why people who have followed for so long are leaving the Lord, leaving us.”
469. “But brothers and sisters, it’s the start of a tsunami!. YES, A TSUNAMI!”
470. “The first sign of a tsunami is when the water retreats”
“The water retreats far further away from the shore than any low tide. And it has retreated back further than ever hasn’t it? Looking around you all now, a lot are missing. Many have left, and continue to leave. Just like when the water retreats before the tsunami comes in.”
471. “Some people don’t know the sign of the water retreating that far back. It’s a novelty. They run out onto the beach, following the water out. Amazed at the floor of the ocean being exposed, when it’s usually quite deep. But they don’t know. Don’t know what is happening.”
472. “Then faster than the waters went out – it returns. And also there is much much more of it.”
“Brothers and Sisters, that is what is happening now. The waters have retreated and any moment now, the enormous wave is coming. OH PRAISE THE LORD HOW MIGHTY IT WILL BE. HALLELUJAH!”
473. “We ARE in a revival. It’s the Lord’s revival. Don’t get down. It’s easy to get down but don’t. Be victorious. It’s just the enemy. Don’t think about it. Give it none of your time. It’s a test of our faith. Our blind faith. When the waters, ‘the people’ flood back in, more than ever, a massive flood of souls…amen. Amen. And all the people said?!”
474. “Actually, all that is a lie everyone. Over the past decades we have made up so many stories. Many fables. Many analogies. But it was all a fairy tail. All in our heads. We played church, played the only one true church and I’m now telling you to stop coming here. The GRC should be no more. If you still believe in Jesus, believe in the Bible, search out and find a real church. An honest true church. One that does not hold itself up as the only one, because that stinks as off fish in a fresh cat feces storage facility that ran out of lids.”
‘Water is life. Life has left the shores of the GRC, and is not coming back.”
475. “The sisters who were shamed about not wearing dresses every time, the brothers who didn’t wear a tie, they stopped coming. The ones who sat in the foyer, being ‘guilt tripped’ for missing all the choruses written by people of the ‘World’ don’t come any more. No wonder. You should have just appreciated they were there at all. Too late now.”
476. “The ones who don’t go anymore realised a life’s truth – There is a big difference between being needed and being valued / loved. Lucky them that their eyes opened and they are now genuinely free.”
“If you don’t believe in God, the Lord, Jesus, if this place has made you an atheist then what are you doing here anyway? Probably because you don’t want to be separated from your loved ones and scared of losing all your friends. Fair enough. But I’m done.”
477. *Picks up my handbag from the platform. “Never coming back and neither should any of you. Ciao”.
They’ll make all sorts of apologetics about the diminishing follower base, but it’s all more lies.
For allll the times any GRC ministry or extremists followers said and did stupid and mean things to anyone…“The axe forgets – but the tree remembers”.
478. Tithe means a tenth - Tithing = Tenthing.
479. Tithing is primarily an Old Testament practice with several key references in books like Leviticus, Numbers, and Malachi, where it is described as giving a tenth of one’s income or produce to the Lord, often designated for the Levites, priests, or the poor.
480. The New Testament mentions tithing only a few times, but it does not command it as a requirement - rather, it is incidental to other teachings.
481. There will be no repercussions from the Lord if you cease contributing to the GRC finances.
The ministry is bluffing hard earned money from the member’s hands.
482. Are you giving, or did you give tithes to the GRC, and has the ministry ever made it clear to you that it’s NOT a requirement in the New Testament? No, they didn’t mention it?
483. There isn’t a tithing rule in the bible where it must be given with anonymity.
484. The GRC has tax exemption privileges while being registered as a religious institution - they do not pay tax on the tithes received - but at the same time they are not meeting the full conditional requirements of the Australian Tax Office to receive that tax exemption status. Another full set of entries for another day perhaps?
485. The GRC won’t let you record what you have given with a receipt or ledger. That’s handy for the GRC isn’t it?
486. Honestly, what would be the ministry’s response and behaviour if you mentioned you weren’t tithing due to the cost of living, or other personal financial stressor? It wouldn’t be a nice response or behaviour, you’d be guilt tripped and shamed - we all know.
487. Tithes are partly to be given to the poor according to the Bible - the GRC never does that, unless to support another assembly, which is technically giving to itself, not the poor outside.
The GRC never partakes in charity work, or giving to the poor in ‘The World’.
Neither does it combine all member’s wealth/belongings and share it out among everyone equally as the Bible says to. Another case of the GRC cherry picking what to follow or ignore from the bible.
488. It’s a bit of a scam isn’t it? Yes, it is.
489. Here is an idea - if one part of a GRC reinvention included it giving to the poor (outside of the GRC) then the GRC would prosper. After all, how does it go? "You can’t out give the Lord"…as the GRC says when it asks for an offering from the members. Well, the same principle applies to the ministry with regards to giving to the poor in the society around and outside of the GRC does it not?
490. Ok, someone has to pay for the GRC lights, rent, loans, equipment, all the running costs, but call a spade a spade, and nothing wrong with everyone contributing an amount they desire - if finances aren’t working out the ministry is to blame, for it alone has miscalculated and underperformed. Don’t pressure the members.
491. It’s distressing to understand the ministry exhorts it’s members to pray to THE LORD for financial aid and find it themselves, BUT when the ministry has a need THE MEMBERS are harassed for offerings. And when the financial need is finally met through the members providing the funds they exclaim "Oh praise the Lord for Him providing…because we are the only church on earth right with God."
492. The issue is if the ministry was righteous and doing the correct ministering they would have enough numbers to not require ‘member funded bail outs’. Supporting the false prophet ministry GRC is enabling the behaviour of that ministry being weak. It is not the Lord’s work, far from it. If it was the Lord’s work the finances would look after itself. Easily.
493. It's the classic Loaves and Fishes for the multitude scenario, but... If it was a correct church not one member funded bail out would be required. Including for camps and such. Jesus provided the loaves and fishes for the people, at the GRC the people have to find the loaves and fishes for the ministry – it’s back to front isn’t it?
“The price of procrastination is the life you could have lived.”
494. It's not complicated. Instruction from the Bible on how to be saved is simple and clear. If you are a Christian, atheist, agnostic, Baha'i or other, you see the GRC enforces a very complicated process that's not reflective of how Bible scripture describes it.
495. Once again, my belief is not relevant to yours. grcfacts is not attempting to preach or refute the Bible to you. These entries are only to further demonstrate what the GRC ministry is doing incorrectly, and this topic is about the core salvation instruction of the GRC which decides who is saved and who is going to hell - in their minds only.
496. Jesus' actual message of salvation in the King James Version Bible is centred on faith in Him as the Son of God and the Saviour of the world.
497. Some key verses that summarise His teachings on salvation include:
John 3 vs 16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This verse highlights that salvation comes through belief in Jesus.
Romans 10 vs 9 - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." This emphasises the importance of confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in His resurrection.
Ephesians 2 vs 8, 9 – "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." This verse clarifies that salvation is a gift from God, received through faith, not by human effort.
Acts 16 vs 31 – "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." This verse reinforces the simplicity of salvation - believing in Jesus.
498. Jesus taught that salvation is available to all who believe in Him, accept His sacrifice, and trust in God's grace. The Geelong Revival Centre complicates salvation. For example, they pick and choose what you need for salvation, they don't do much else the Bible links to having salvation as the GRC does speaking in tongues - they don't pick up serpents (Mark 16 vs 17, 18) is one link they dismiss. If they did pick up serpents they'd die, hence the GRC conveniently leaves that condition out. Complicating salvation makes it harder to attain and retain, which drives people away.
499. Many people have left, or have been permanently removed from the GRC and everyone in it. The GRC enforced a way of thinking about salvation that is too convoluted to understand. Ex members are often confused and distressed about going to hell as a result - This is evil work by the GRC. Please don't think you're going to hell, a bad person, not worthy of much, or doomed in any way just because the GRC told you so. You are as valuable as anyone else - especially when you control what you do to benefit those around you and for yourself.
500. If you would still like to follow Jesus, the Bible, God, and have salvation - Start again. Keep it simple. Completely discard what the GRC ministry told you - keep remembering it's a harmful cult. Look and follow God without the GRC - don't pay any attention to the rubbish they say. Read the Bible without using the GRC teachings as a guide.
"Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm - and don't feel obliged to others' ideas of what you should be doing for yourself” - Leave the GRC if you can.